Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: You know, there's so many skincare brands out there and they all have, you know, amazing either technology or positioning, beautiful textures, you know, cosmetical elegance, you know, we don't need another skincare brand. I think for me it's more of a passion project and something that I've been doing. I think my creative genius, it's an output for me in a sense.
[00:00:19] Speaker B: Welcome to Skin Be. I'm Dr. Anish Chacon and today we have a very special guest joining us. Get ready for some expert insights you won't want to miss.
[00:00:31] Speaker A: Hi, I'm Evelina Ajosa, originally from Poland. I've been here for almost 30 years, but the accent still sticking around. I have been in the beauty industry for a good solid 15 years and I pride myself in sticking to the niche category of scientific skincare. I didn't really jump the ship. I stayed within the scientific skincare realm working at contract manufacturers that were servicing, dispensing physicians with private label products. Also supporting physician brands that were sold at Sephora between Dr. Gross, Dr. Lancer, all those brands, you know, just 10, 15 years ago. I have also worked in big beauty multinationals between P to l' Oreal as a head of marketing and product development for, I would say legacy brands, between skinceuticals, Avene, Glyton, to name a few. I have also entered the indie brand realm where I have incubated brands for, for Sephora for private investors. I also worked as a, I guess interim CMO and provided strategy consulting services for private equity firms who are looking into acquiring brands in our medical grade beauty space and as well as many other brands. So I believe I've worked at least on 15 medical grade brands between my corporate career and then also as an independent contractor. And I also have a brand as well which is called Topical Skin. It's a, it's a clean, thermaceutical skincare line.
[00:01:59] Speaker B: With all your songs, that's really a lot of experience. And I think what I told you when I first met is that the skincare space seems really competitive. How do you distinguish yourself? I'm sure you have a lot of market research that you've done just being in a space a lot, but it's very difficult to start a skincare line.
[00:02:19] Speaker A: Yes, I feel like the, when it comes to, you know, I guess the barrier of entry is rather low when it comes to, you know, creating a skincare line. You can choose to go semi private label, white label or custom developed formulations. In my case, I have been drafting formula ideas on Paper So all of the formulations under topical skin, 100% custom developed. I work with a lot of raw material vendors who are the source of innovation. They actually pitch the big beauty, you know, brand executives to commercialize their molecules, moles to commercialize their ingredients because they conduct the primary research in vivo, in vitro to prove the efficacy. I also attend a lot of trade shows, you know, New York suppliers there where the innovation, you know, from all around the world is usually displaced and showcased. So I feel like I have first dibs when it comes to innovation. I also love to read PubMed and, and and you know, clinical studies research papers on ingredients. But of an interest especially to dermatologists and dermatology community. But you're correct. You know, there's so many skincare brands out there and have, you know, amazing either technology or positioning, beautiful textures, you know, cosmetical elegance, you know, we don't need another skincare brand. I think for me it's more of a passion project and something that I've been doing. I think my creative genius, it's, you know, it's an output for me in a sense. So obviously I would love my brand to be super successful and bring generate revenue but it's not like my first mo. It's more of a passion project. I have so many ideas in my head and I utilize dermatologists and estheticians as my advisors. Advisors and I have them on my advisory board. I just need to encapsulate all this knowledge and all this innovation around us into products that I would love to use on myself, on my mother or my daughter. That's why I created topical skin.
[00:04:08] Speaker B: Do you see that's emerging in skin care trends now? Like for a while it was, you know, everybody's trying to make their skincare products in Korea. I don't know. That is with the tariffs right now. Pentacles and organic stuff was really in style as well. What is kind of the to have?
[00:04:27] Speaker A: Yeah, I feel like. Yeah, I mean the clean beauty, I think it's a staple nowadays. It's totally mainstream. I don't think it's anybody else's first messaging. I feel like you, you know any brand that's coming out on the market right now, especially if they want to be at Sephora Ulta Credo, they have to be as clean as it gets. But when it comes to the newness on the market, I think the inspiration comes or the innovation usually comes from the Asia Pacific market. So we are still looking what's, what's trending there? Not everything is going to be, you know, regulatory compliant in the United States. But we definitely draw source of inspiration from Asia Pacific. I think when it comes to trends nowadays, the lines between medicine and regenerative, medicine and beauty are blending and also wellness. So you see a lot of ingredients that it'll help prolong the longevity and health of the skin and also help regenerate the tissue. And we're talking about the cellular level action. So between, you know, exosomes, stem cells, stem cells derived from plants, stem cells derived from, you know, human source, as well as amazing antioxidant research between glupathion to, I mean so many out there, superoxide dismutase, I think our library of ingredients and innovation is just constantly expanding. But it's not only about the ingredients. I would also, I would say it's also about delivery systems, encapsulation technologies and also about, I think keeping sensitive skin in mind. Because I would say 50% of population identifies themselves as being sensitive skin or having sensitive skin. So creating products that are not necessarily super aggressive or corrective treatments, but those that will complement in office procedures such as lasers, you know, microcurrent, radio frequency defense devices, something that could help with healing process. It's definitely trending in the United States because we do have access as consumers to aesthetic medicine. And I'm sure you service, you know, clients and patients in your practice as well. They do come for chemical peels, they come for lasers, they come for fractional laser treatments. You know, the skin is already treated harshly in a sense. So they need more of like a gentle approach, Something that will sustain the health and the wellness of the skin.
[00:06:40] Speaker B: Do you wear a Topics Pharmaceuticals? They do.
Is it, what's it called when you put the brand on it? You know, they're the ones that are usually at.
[00:06:49] Speaker A: Private label. Yes. Yeah, private label.
[00:06:51] Speaker B: Yeah, right. I was just kind of missing it, the term. And then how do you see that space versus just creating innovative skin?
[00:07:01] Speaker A: I mean, I love my time at Topics Pharmaceuticals. Since then they rebranded as Topic Skin Health and they own many, many brands, private label being one of them. But they've put a lot of research into prototyping formulas just meant for the physician dispensed market segment. So it's not something that you are able to find on a shelf at, I don't know, Target or Sephora. It was only created for physician dispense shelf because the physician was able to guide or is able to guide the patient for the right ingredient for the right formulation, but also create the step up system so you don't plateau on the skincare. And I believe the private label skincare is honestly created with more potent actives, more purified actives. Those formulas are not necessarily filled with fluff or preservative systems that you know, have to maintain two year shelf life because they understand that physician will be purchasing private label at lower, you know, quantities and this product will move on a monthly basis. So there's no worry about, you know, keeping inventory in stock and you know, having it have a long shelf life. So I would say the private label is still growing strong and I believe you can be very creative with private label because again, you are dispensing private label products to physicians or through physicians and they can use it off label as well. So you might be making a claim on vitamin E for one thing, but physician can at the discretion find a different indication or maybe recommended to a patient for different skin concern as well. So I think private label is definitely here to stay.
And you know, topics, pharmaceuticals or topics Skin health is one of the private label providers. I know that they work with a lot of physicians, researchers, universities. They actually commercialize molecules that are exclusive to topics and also through topics to physician population as well.
And I think a lot of luxury beauty market eventually, you know, copies of mirrors what the physician dispense market is doing. And from luxury it trickles down to mass. So I think that's also where innovation kind of takes place within our little niche segment.
[00:09:05] Speaker B: Tell me about your move from Poland to the United States. There's a lot of Polish people in my hand now. I feel like I'm meeting more and more people from Poland, Eastern Europe that are moving here, the Sunny Isles area. Tell me about, you know, how, how you made that move. Sure.
[00:09:21] Speaker A: So I'm, I'm somewhat new to the Miami area, so I didn't realize there's so much of the Eastern European community. And quite frankly I just happen to end up in the area where there's a lot of population of Eastern European descent. I, you know, came to the United States. I'm joking. But like last century, 1998, I actually got a scholarship to go to a college. So I got a four and a half year degree studying here in the United States with an intent to go back and continue my master's at actually Oxford, England. Being an exchange student, super common, especially if you're in Europe. Everybody always goes for at least one semester, study abroad, exchange program in my case. So it happened that it was across the pond, the big pond. And you know, I ended up in the United States. And because I was studying in a very, very rural area of Pennsylvania, I, you know, which was very conducive environmental or environment for the studies. I really wanted to, you know, see United States for what it is, for what I see in the movies. I wanted to see the skyscrapers and the cities. I said I was surrounded by Amish county and cornfields and bison farms. So I kind of wanted to escape this environment. And I made my way to New York City. And from New York City, we are just testing the waters as snowbirds here in Florida. But I, like I said, I've been here for like almost 30 years.
[00:10:37] Speaker B: You were telling me there's a low barrier to entry.
For me, developing a skincare line sounds so expensive and like such a, you know, investment.
What do you mean, entry, if you don't mind?
[00:10:52] Speaker A: No, of course it's fairly low, you know, low barrier of entry because anybody can go to either a cosmetic chemist or a contract manufacturer and, and give them either a base formulation or take their base formulation, sprinkle a little bit of an active to create a skincare line. But it's fairly, you know, efficacious. I think in a case of dermatologists such as yourself, where science is, you know, paramount and, you know, you speak the scientific language, it might be a little bit harder, obviously, to create a product or formula or line that will, you know, live up to the standard, but dermatologists live by. But for any other mass market product, I would say you go to manufacturer, you work with the R and D lab to create a formula either based on your idea and based on the brief you create. Depending on what kind of product claims you would like to make, or depending on what kind of maybe active or skincare ingredients you would like to include. You identify a benchmark for texture, for, you know, efficacy, for touch and feel, and you let the R and D lab do their thing. You receive a couple of prototypes which you can approve, reject, you can change direction. So I would say it's rather low cost. On average, $2,500. I think that's what we usually get charged by contract manufacturers to prototype a formula. And you get up to three, I guess, edits. If you want to go the cosmetic kindness route, it's probably a little bit more expensive, probably four times as much. But, you know, they, they will work with you on, on the really honing down on, you know, what makes the formula tick. And from there, if you want to start manufacturing your products, I think, you know, the quantities you start at 2,500 units. 5,000 units. So I would say it's a low cost of entry because, you know, minimal investment to, to get going. It doesn't mean that the brand will be successful and sustainable. And you can scale, but you can create a product fairly easily. And I would say in six months you can have a nice prototype sitting on a, on a shelf.
[00:12:42] Speaker B: Okay, how much would you say it is like to start? 10,000.
How much would you say is like.
[00:12:48] Speaker A: I would say to do it the right way. It's more than that. Definitely.
You know, $2,500 is just for the start to get a prototype. And then we have to think about packaging components and safety testing, efficacy testing, microbial testing. I would say you have to put aside at least easily 50k per skew on average. Depends who you work with. And yes, that's insane.
If you want to do it the right way. If you want to do it the right way, there is shortcuts. There's a lot of contract manufacturers that have catalog formulas available for you for grabs and they allow you to take, maybe add 1 to 3% edit of the formula by sprinkling some kind of ingredient that might be proprietary to you or to your line, just for marketing purposes, not at efficacy level. And they will provide packaging options even in case of private label. You can pick and choose if you want to have more luxurious packaging or more generic packaging. So like I said, if you want to do it, the custom route is more expensive. If you just want to do it, you more of like a turnkey and a catalog formula that's more affordable.
[00:13:55] Speaker B: Okay, that's interesting. And then how did you find people? I'm assuming that you have a very large team. Like how big would you say your team is that helps you with this, you know, venture? And how did you find people? Cosmetic chemists? I think a lot of people use them. Sometimes people use dermatologists. I know that you and you have, you know, a network of dermatologists that also participate, you know, in your skincare line.
How did you kind of build a team and what did that involve?
[00:14:26] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, like I said, I've been in the industry for so long and I had a luxury of working with the greatest minds in the industry, between cosmetic chemists to microbiologists, to having so many physicians on the advisory board. Even before I started topical skin working with so many brands, you just touch on physicians. I have run clinical studies for brands in the past. So I have, I believe just because of my background, it's not My first rodeo, it was easy to, to put a team together and. But to answer your questions, I don't have that many full time employees. I rely solely on 1099, you know, Reps, contractors. I tap into consultants as well, outsource what I need to and I try to handle as much as I can also in house because it's the beginning stages. I have devoted a lot of time into product development because for me that's what speaks volume. The product is what I'm trying to, to market and sell. It has to be as, as good as it gets and you know, meet my standards for efficacy but also cosmetic elegance. I do have physicians, dermatologists and estheticians on my advisory board and a scientific liaison to help me with the clinical studies as well, you know, research papers.
I would say if you're new to the field, it's going to be harder to get obviously, you know, to assemble a team and you will have to obviously pay honorarium to everybody that comes on board. But because I have worked in the industry for so long and I believe I did a lot of people a lot of favors, it's kind of coming back to me just different ways. So I'm blessed in that way.
[00:16:00] Speaker B: And then you're often a keynote speaker, industry council member.
How do you see leadership evolving in beauty and skin care?
[00:16:08] Speaker A: I would say that that title kind of fell on my lap because I've been involved in the beauty for so long and I've contributed articles to many beauty publications. I do attend so many trade shows and moderate panels. By default my name is, you know, floating out there. But I love, I love sharing my knowledge and I love educating other people. I think there's so many on the beginning, on the very beginning, I'll be honest with you, it was out of my, I was in my comfort zone just being me and letting my work speak for myself and kind of being behind the scenes. But because of the social media and so many people claiming to be experts in the field, yet they have zero to not an experience. They are just more, they have a PR behind them or they might have more of the social. They just put themselves out there and make a claim on themselves. You know, they don't let the work speak for themselves. I figured, okay, I do have the experience, I might as well offer my services to others and educate the masses and sometimes also debunk myths. I have a lot of so called experts actually tapping into me as a consultant to help them navigate and help their clients. So it's interesting to see that there's a lot of wannabes out there. And so I figured, yeah, might as well capitalize on my experience and put my name out there as well.
[00:17:26] Speaker B: You have various publications and podcasts. How do you decide what to cover? What impact do you hope to have in this area?
[00:17:34] Speaker A: I'll give you a little like a marketing nugget. You know, as a.
I'm a classically trained marketer, so a lot of those moves are kind of strategic. So the fact that for example, I am on YouTube, we know that YouTube has twice as many users as Facebook and it's one of the oldest social media platforms. And also being on YouTube helps with SEO. So it kind of. It's like a triple whammy. And short form content is super popular nowadays. You can choose to be on Instagram, Instagram reels, but you can also repurpose this content and go on YouTube and frequently if you go on a podcast, those podcasts live on YouTube platform and other platforms as well. But I feel like it's just, you know, it just serves the purpose of, you know, getting your brand and world out there and also helps with SEO. And that content lives forever so people can go back and reference what you had to say, what you had to share.
And for any of you that have a skincare line, I would recommend that you also drop in a little bit code, maybe like a discount code for your line because you never know when the sales are coming in. I've noticed that, you know, two years ago I might have made an appearance on somebody else's podcast and orders are coming in right now with the code. So it may not happen right away, but it may happen, you know, later down the line.
[00:18:46] Speaker B: Tell me any upcoming projects or initiatives that you're excited about that you want to share.
[00:18:52] Speaker A: Sure. I mean, I'm excited about, you know, the new product development. I have two new skincare products launching. An eye cream and a face oil, which, you know, face oil may be not the typical dermatological skew or product you think of, but that one is very close to my heart. And an eye cream as well. I have. I will be also an ambassador for Makeup in which takes place in September. I usually moderate panels and actually host a beauty tank challenge which is a take on beauty shark for color, cosmetic and skincare brands to pitch to industry experts.
I also am working with the Perfect Corp on their AI conference also taking place in New York City. That's going to be in September.
I will be traveling to LA for Beauty Connect. I'm also on the Advisory board for the Beauty Connect dermalogical edition.
And I believe I might be going to IESC as Vegas because my friends at Dermascope magazine are celebrating 50 year anniversary. So there'll be a big activation there as well. And this is top of mind plus the modern day wife, what she said. I have that as well in the works which is taking place in Miami, but I know they are doing other activations across the United States as well. Yeah, this is top of mind and I'm missing a few activations in New York City just because I'm based here right now. My friend Dr. Blair Rose is, is relaunching skincare junkie to a couple of beauty editors with Ian, an influencer and an esthetician. So there's always something going on. Quite frankly, I would have to check my calendar, but that's, that's kind of like top of mind that's coming to me.
[00:20:28] Speaker B: What advice would you have for someone that's looking to break into the beauty industry, particularly in roles on brand development and marketing?
[00:20:37] Speaker A: I would encourage them if it's, you know, if it's, it's a passion and it's on their heart to, to pull the trigger and do it. I would say slow and steady wins the race. Wins the race. At the very beginning, you may have to invest heavily into marketing and fuel the pipeline in order to see return on investment.
I would say definitely tap into expert in the industry. Find a mentor if you can, because entrepreneurship is, I would say it's a very lonely journey and it's a Laura cluster. You have ups and downs and I had moments where I wanted to give up and just pull the plug many times.
But you always see that at the end of the tunnel. Something, you know, some of the seeds that I've planted years ago are finally coming to fruition. But I think the most important thing is remember, you cannot do it all yourself. You need a team of people and ideally team of experts. If you don't invest into hiring professionals, it's going to cost you more in a long time, in a long term. If you're doing social media, I would say outsource it to a millennia and a younger population because they know how to work that platform, we know how to work that system. And I would say tap into experts, you know, digital marketing, marketing, branding, it will be huge. You can only make the first impression once. So be as buttoned down as you can before you decide to launch a product or launch a brand and have a very, very clear goal and strategy in place. If you're going after mass market retailers, obviously your branding and positioning will be different.
And if you were going after luxury market, you have to understand your audience and you know, we cannot market to everybody. If you're selling to younger population and you go to Sephora, you will see a lot of all the colors of the rainbows when it comes to secondary packaging and, and then branding is more, I would say colorful and, and, and I guess eye catchy versus if you're going to luxury or medical space. I think the branding part doesn't speak as much as maybe the actives and clinical studies and scientific, you know, papers proving the efficacy. So you have to pick a lane, know who you are targeting and who you're marketing to and then test it. I would say do a soft launch before you go big. The soft launch allows you to maybe tweak what didn't necessarily work or have some kind of preliminary feedback, tap into focus groups. I mean, you know, we can write a book about the best practices when it comes to, you know, launching a line and launching a product. And I would say have a hero product. Have a hero skew. When I was at SkinCeuticals majority, you know, of my budget was devoted to marketing just one product. It was the CE forolic. We know that product has been around for 20 years. The patent expired by now. But when I was on the brand, majority of my budget was spent on various activations for CE Pro because that was the engine that kind of pulled the entire train. So you do have to have a hero skill. It better be something that will capture attention of not only consumers but also beauty editors. It helps to have some kind of a key opinion leader or expert attached to your brand. Because beauty editors love to quote physicians, dermatologists, other experts or licensed estheticians in press versus a brand founder or just like a marketing person. And I would say don't underestimate the power of PR because like I said, you know, branding and brand recognition is everything.
Nobody wants to be the first one to cover you or nobody wants to be the first one to carry you. Nobody wants to be the first one to work with you. But you need to gain, you know, consumer trust and loyalty. And the best way to do it is to also activate heavily on social media. So the social proof is huge. I know that a lot of private equity firms that I work with, when they're looking into either invest into a brand or acquire a brand, they're looking for that social proof and not only profitability, but also the social proof is huge metric nowadays. Thanks, Evelina.
[00:24:23] Speaker B: Have a great day.
[00:24:24] Speaker A: Bye. Take care. La. Bye.
